Curse

Like a Ninja · Oct 15, 2008, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Hello, is this a good build, and if it is tell me what it is good for and if it is not, help me improve it.

Way of the empty palm
Death's Charge
Critical Defenses
Critical Eye
Golden Fox Strike
Wild Strike
Reapeating Strike
Death Blossom

Edit: Illidan009 what you said is true, but I ment it to be like this:

Use critical defenses, use crtitical eye, use golden fox strike, use wild strike, then use way of the empty palm, then use reapeating strike a number of times, and then use death blossum for the finisher.

Thanks.

illidan009 · Oct 15, 2008, 01:06 AM // 01:06

For pvp it would be bad. End of story.
For pve, it could become good with a few adjustments. I see you're trying to use Way of Empty Palm to its max, but Repeating strike and Death Blossom does not have synergy...you'd have to start a whole new chain to get to repeating strike again. Remove repeating strike and add asuran scan(pve only).
If you want just anotehr build that works really well, use...
1.Asuran Scan
2. Golden Fox Strike
3. Wild Strike
4. Death Blossom
5. Moebius Strike
6. "Save Yourselves!"
7. Critical Agility
8. Critical Defense for mass block, or Critical Eye for e-management
This build obviously will not work in PvP b/c of 2 pve skills.
Hope that was somewhat helpful!

EDIT(haha me too): Ok I see what you mean now. But you could still include Critical Agility in your way of empty palm build(forgot to mention last time), b/c that would significantly enhance the speed at which you spam repeating strike. That being said, you could probably take out critical eye as it is only good for e-management and you obviously don't need any with your elite skill

wind fire and ice · Oct 15, 2008, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Way of the Empty Palm is a waste of an elite spot,i'd highly recomend illidan's build though,with the critical eye variation.

AngeliqueSynner · Oct 15, 2008, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by illidan009

EDIT(haha me too): Ok I see what you mean now. But you could still include Critical Agility in your way of empty palm build(forgot to mention last time), b/c that would significantly enhance the speed at which you spam repeating strike. That being said, you could probably take out critical eye as it is only good for e-management and you obviously don't need any with your elite skill

I may be wrong on this, but Critical Agility doesn't speed up the activation of your skills. Though I could be wrong. I use it on my assassin and don't really see a speed improvement in my attack chain until I reach the end of it and it's just swinging without skills.

As for helping on the empty palm.
I tried that too.
It really is a waste of a skillslot and an elite.
I never managed to get a decent roll going though I could maintain it, I never hit more than 3 times before having to renew it or end the chain.
It's good in theroy, not in practicality.

wind fire and ice · Oct 15, 2008, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Yes,Crit. Agility does speed up your chain.

AngeliqueSynner · Oct 15, 2008, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by wind fire and ice

Yes,Crit. Agility does speed up your chain.

Well it's true, you do learn something new every day. xD Thank you for enlightening me. :]

wind fire and ice · Oct 15, 2008, 04:13 AM // 04:13

No problem.

Luminarus · Oct 15, 2008, 07:11 AM // 07:11

I tried repeating strike with a conjure in a build like that... didnt work so good. Had less pressure then a moebius DB spammer, no aoe, and wasnt worth the skill slot.

The whole concept of palm is flawed because it suggests spamming offhands and duals, yet moebius allows that far more, and is better at it.

Rothan Celt · Oct 15, 2008, 09:18 AM // 09:18

illidan009
I <3 that build x)

fireflyry · Oct 15, 2008, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Critical Defenses is a waste of time without Critical Strike, it also slows you down a ton, and you shouldn't have a need for it unless you plan on regularly pugging with complete morons or teams with no backline heal/prot support which is pretty fail to begin with.

illidan009 gave the basic template 9/10 Sin's use these days, it tends to be the best around.

For ideas on variation I'd suggest checking PvX or asking guildies.Easier and faster than here.

Desert Rose · Oct 15, 2008, 10:32 AM // 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngeliqueSynner

I may be wrong on this, but Critical Agility doesn't speed up the activation of your skills.

Any IAS speeds up every attack, even attack skills. However, an IAS doesn't speed up activation of non-attack skills like Palm Strike.

petrorabbit · Oct 15, 2008, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Rose

Any IAS speeds up every attack, even attack skills. However, an IAS doesn't speed up activation of non-attack skills like Palm Strike.

To take it a step further, whats happening is IAS speeds up the frames of your attack animation.

The equation would be (X - (X x Y)) = your attack speed animation. X is your activation time, and Y is your IAS value.

Using Critical Agility, an attack that takes 1 second to finish its animation and hit your target will now take (1 second - ( 1 x 0.33 seconds)).

Faster attack animation = faster attack rate, hence increase in DPS, and increase in the speed at which you can deliver a spike.

Tyla · Oct 15, 2008, 09:54 PM // 21:54

I used WotEP in a previous build I used when I played Hero Battles. Off the top of my head it's something like this... (This is also assuming you're talking about PvP, although I don't advise it outside of FA, AB and RA)

Way of the Empty Palm
Mark of Instability
Lightning Reflexes
Black Spider Strike
Twisting Fangs
Falling Spider / Golden Phoenix Strike
Blades of Steel
-Whatever in this slot-

It was quite sucky. The reason is: The reliance on both a hex and an enchantment. Either it would have been Corrupted or Reversed. This was quite a while back though.

Anyway, the bar Illidan posted is pretty top-notch for PvE, however I would remove the Crit Defenses / Crit Eye spot for Brawling Headbutt (doesn't synergise well with SY, I know, but if my Monks suck so bad that without SY up for a few seconds they allow someone to die, I doubt they'll be effective anyway), or Falling Lotus Strike.

To add on here; the reason your bar is weak is because it utilises spammability of Repeating Strike and nothing more. By the time you get someone to half health, I would have took something out in half the time with a Moebius Blossom, but that's only if the target isn't moving. There are other instagibs (hardly "instagibs" anymore, but meh) that will kill faster too. You also have no deep wound.

illidan009 · Oct 15, 2008, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Critical Defenses is a waste of time without Critical Strike, it also slows you down a ton, and you shouldn't have a need for it unless you plan on regularly pugging with complete morons or teams with no backline heal/prot support which is pretty fail to begin with.

illidan009 gave the basic template 9/10 Sin's use these days, it tends to be the best around.

For ideas on variation I'd suggest checking PvX or asking guildies.Easier and faster than here.

dammit u spilled mah secret! and here I was feeling good about myself for once...im gonna /wrist now THANKS A LOT!!

Like a Ninja · Oct 16, 2008, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Uggg I'm mad b/c i fought him today and when I used critical defenses and then he ran away and waited until it wore off. But I fought him before that and i owned him when he didn't run.

snaek · Oct 16, 2008, 12:50 AM // 00:50

repeating strike is useless
auto-attack beats it in every way

in regards to wotep
its only useful for spike chains that r expensive in energy
offhand-dual-offhand-dual would be ideal

honestly, do not regard wotep as "must exploit use of offhands and duals"
regard it as "ah, my offhands and duals do not cost any energy, allowing me to bring more expensive hexes/stances/enchants/etc"

this is due to the fact there r very few good attack chains
and most of the attack chains dun justify teh use of wotep for emanagement
so its really ur choice of utility/shutdown/etc that decides teh effectiveness of ur wotep bar
(tyla has a pretty decent one, wit mark of instability and lightning reflexes)

Bobby2 · Oct 16, 2008, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Like a Ninja

Uggg I'm mad b/c i fought him today and when I used critical defenses and then he ran away and waited until it wore off. But I fought him before that and i owned him when he didn't run.

....Yeah. That's why Crit Def is considered a noob skill, y'know?

FlamingMetroid · Oct 16, 2008, 03:55 AM // 03:55

+1 for MS/DB

Luminarus · Oct 16, 2008, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

repeating strike is useless
auto-attack beats it in every way

in regards to wotep
its only useful for spike chains that r expensive in energy
offhand-dual-offhand-dual would be ideal

honestly, do not regard wotep as "must exploit use of offhands and duals"
regard it as "ah, my offhands and duals do not cost any energy, allowing me to bring more expensive hexes/stances/enchants/etc"

this is due to the fact there r very few good attack chains
and most of the attack chains dun justify teh use of wotep for emanagement
so its really ur choice of utility/shutdown/etc that decides teh effectiveness of ur wotep bar
(tyla has a pretty decent one, wit mark of instability and lightning reflexes)

The only offhands/duals which cost alot of energy is twisting fangs, shattering assualt, temple strike, black spider, golden skull, lotus strike. Of those, u can only bring black spider, lotus and twisting fangs. 5 energy offhands/duals do not justify wotep. Lotus is by itself energy management. Twisting fangs is a 1 off skill due to recharge. Black spider isnt really that great imo, but doesnt by itself justify the combo at any rate.

With Tyla's build, if you run falling lotus and fox's promise (just an example), with radiants and zealous +5 energy daggers, thats 38 energy. Getting up to and including falling lotus costs 50 energy. Firstly, very expensive combo but given time for regen, by the time you get to it that means u need 1, crit to get there, and this spike can nolonger be blocked.

Also with tylas build, I would suggest running golden pheonix strike then falling lotus. Still relies on hex and enchant, but reduces energy cost and has more damage.

snaek · Oct 16, 2008, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminarus

The only offhands/duals which cost alot of energy is twisting fangs, shattering assualt, temple strike, black spider, golden skull, lotus strike. Of those, u can only bring black spider, lotus and twisting fangs. 5 energy offhands/duals do not justify wotep. Lotus is by itself energy management. Twisting fangs is a 1 off skill due to recharge. Black spider isnt really that great imo, but doesnt by itself justify the combo at any rate.

With Tyla's build, if you run falling lotus and fox's promise (just an example), with radiants and zealous +5 energy daggers, thats 38 energy. Getting up to and including falling lotus costs 50 energy. Firstly, very expensive combo but given time for regen, by the time you get to it that means u need 1, crit to get there, and this spike can nolonger be blocked.

Also with tylas build, I would suggest running golden pheonix strike then falling lotus. Still relies on hex and enchant, but reduces energy cost and has more damage.

if u read anything i wrote...
5energy skills -do- justify wotep

like i said...its all bout ur utility choice that is the deciding factor
disregard any energy cost on offhand/duals
place 0 (zero, zilch, nada) importance on their cost
whether its 5, 10, or 100

anyways...time for some math....
tyla's combo costs 55en (not counting reduction from wotep)
wotep reduces it to 25en

if u run fox's promise
ur combo increases to 60en cost

running radiants in the first place is a pretty bad idea
but even if u did, it wont cover a 60en combo reliably or effectively

u expend 40en before even hitting anything
so u cant rely on zealous or crits
and u then have to expend another 15en before falling lotus will even connect
u will have hit only 3 times by then...even if u crit 3 out of 3, thats only +12energy...
so when the zealous/crit actually do kick in...its still not even that great of an effect